Q&A with the contenders for the Scottish Labour leadership

Holyrood: Who or what convinced you to run?

Neil Findlay: “The overwhelming numbers of party members, constituents, friends and family members who got in touch and urged me to stand. It was very humbling.”

Sarah Boyack: “I’d been reflecting on the lessons for Scottish Labour of the first 15 years of the Parliament in the aftermath of the referendum.  We were absolutely right to argue for a stronger, more accountable Scottish Parliament within the UK and we should have backed up our arguments with a stronger Labour campaign for that ambition. There’s a lot more we need to do to come back as a force in Scottish politics.  We have unfinished business from the review I carried out after the 2011 election with Jim Murphy. I believe my experience as an MSP, as a Minister and Shadow Minister, my track record on campaigning and my commitment to lead with an inclusive, listening style make me the right person to take that agenda forward.”

Jim Murphy: “I am running because I want to unite the Scottish Labour Party and lead Scotland.”

Why didn’t you stand for leadership last time around in 2011 and what make it different three years on?

NF: “I was only in Holyrood a few weeks – it would have been a bit arrogant to say I should be in charge when I was still finding out how the place worked. Three years on, Labour is in a very different place – we need a new approach in policy and strategy, that’s me.” 

SB: “I’d just completed the Scottish Labour Review and was delighted to help the party and its incoming leadership team to chart our way forward. As our Shadow Local Government Minister, I was able to start rebuilding relations with our local government colleagues and locally, I focused on rebuilding the Labour Party in Edinburgh. The referendum reopened many of the issues we should have sorted then and that’s why I have come forward now.”

JM: “The new powers that are already on their way to the Scottish Parliament, taken alongside the new powers that will come out of the Smith Commission, mean that the centre of Scottish political life is increasingly in Holyrood. I want to be part of that.”

What one word would you use to describe your leadership style?

NF: “Inclusive.”

SB: “Collegiate. I’d want to pull us together and build on our strengths across the party and across the country. I’d build a strong, effective leadership team to win support for a Labour Government in 2015 and build a strong opposition team in the Scottish Parliament.”

JM: “Consensual.”

Why did you join the Labour Party?

NF: “I joined after the Miners’ Strike, the impact of which was all around me in the village I still live in. As a teenager at school, I couldn’t understand why the Government wanted to put my pals’ ma’s and da’s out of work. Locally, the Labour Party were in the frontline of supporting the strike. My pal’s mum was the chair of the local party and encouraged me to join.”

SB: “When I was younger, I saw the impact of poverty and lack of opportunity for people and communities and the unfairness that held people back. My dad was a Labour councillor for three years and I remember going on visits with him in his ward. I wanted a fairer, more equal society and I was very clear that the Labour Party was the best way to bring that about.”

JM: “Growing up in a working-class Glasgow housing scheme and then white South Africa determined my politics at a young age. The first experience made me a socialist. The second made me an internationalist. Both made me see Labour as the best vehicle for making our country, and our world, a fairer and better place live.”

What is the party’s biggest strength?

NF: “Our members and their principles and commitment – that and the link we have with working people via the trade unions.”

SB: “Our values and our members. We stand for fairness and equality and social justice, and we represent many thousands of people across Scotland who want us to deliver.”

JM: “Our desire and passion for change. Our restlessness for improvement.”

Conversely, what is its biggest weakness?

NF: “Our capacity to be our own biggest critics.”

SB: “Democratic parties are not always as quick to respond to changing demands and opportunities as those with a command and control structure. I would like us to be quicker to adopt and implement change, but not at the expense of practising what we preach as a democratic socialist party.”

JM: “Too often we seem unhappy – as if politics was a chore when in truth, it’s a great privilege and enormous responsibility.”

What is your greatest hope for Scotland?

NF: “That this generation eradicates poverty. It is an outrage that in 2014 we have families in our communities that cannot feed their children and have to rely on food banks. Our claims to be a civilised society ring hollow when we allow this situation to continue.”

SB: “That we make the full use of the opportunities that come from a renewed devolution settlement, and use the increased powers coming to the Scottish Parliament to transform people’s lives, reduce inequalities and create the strong communities and vibrant economy in which all our people can thrive.”

JM: “That being born poor doesn’t determine your life chances. Too many people find it tough to escape the hardship of their upbringing. We can debate individual policies but our passion has to be changing the unfairness in Scotland where the poor live eight years less than the prosperous.”

What makes you think you will succeed where others have failed in terms of leading the party in Scotland?

NF: “I have the drive, determination and policy agenda required to ensure that Labour wins again in Scotland.”

SB: “Having served in the Scottish Parliament since 1999, I understand the need for Scottish Labour to give a clear lead in Scottish political life and I believe the party has learned some hard lessons in the recent past from which we go forward more strongly together. I see my role as the next leader in pulling together the Labour, trade union and Co-operative movements around a shared agenda of economic, environmental and social justice.”

JM: “There are three strong candidates but I feel I have the experience, the passion and the drive to get Scottish Labour winning again. Whoever wins will have my 100 per cent support.”

What will you do to heal the rifts between the party north and south of the border?

NF: “I work very well with my UK parliament colleagues, with Andy Burnham MP on health, for example. I’ve also worked closely on campaigns with many others: Ian Davidson MP on blacklisting, Graeme Morrice MP on the mesh [implant] scandal and David Hamilton MP on miners’ justice spring to mind. We should be aiming to make more effective use of the massive effort made in both Parliaments and, as leader, I’d work on that.” 

SB: “We just need to get on with building a stronger Scottish Labour Party. I will work with colleagues at every level to ensure that Scottish Labour is recognised as the party best able to change Scotland for the better, at the same time as we work with Labour across Britain.”

JM: “I don’t agree that there is a north/south party divide. But be in no doubt, if I am elected, decisions about the Scottish Labour Party will be taken in Scotland.”

Why has the party struggled to operate in a cohesive fashion across the UK given that you did stand on a platform of Better Together?

NF: “I didn’t stand on a Better Together platform, I stood on a ‘United with Labour’ platform. But the party should have a looser structure so that if the Scottish party decides to take a different policy direction than the UK party, then so be it. We have done this in the past on foundation hospitals, tuition fees, etc. We will always have so much more that unites us than divides us because we share a core philosophy based on our historic mission and values.”

SB: “Labour people work together and share values and aspirations across the whole of the UK and across Europe too, but the emergence of Scottish Labour as a distinct party within that Labour family was always bound to raise issues at a leadership level. We need to address those issues in a spirit of co-operation and mutual respect. The process of devolution within Labour is parallel to the process of devolution of government: not always comfortable for all concerned, but the best way to deliver on our shared objectives as a party and as a movement.”

JM: “I don’t think that’s true. All parties have their frictions but we know that divided parties get punished. We are totally united about replacing David Cameron and then winning in 2016.”

What will be your policy priorities as leader?

NF: “People don’t know what we stand for anymore. The Nationalists talk our language and then increase inequality. Ending poverty, implementing the Living Wage, creating jobs to eradicate youth unemployment, building 50,000 social houses, ending the social care crisis and putting vocational education on the same footing as academic education; these are my priorities and these are the issues people raised during the referendum.”

SB: “Setting out how we will deliver on our core values of social, environmental and economic justice – we need to translate those values into practical politics and innovative policy commitments that relate to people’s lives.”

JM: “I have set out three priorities. First, to unite Scotland behind a vision of more powers. Second, to increase prosperity so we are better placed to invest in our public services. Third, to reduce poverty, including for those in work.”

Does Scottish Labour need a different approach from the national party to the General Election campaign?

NF: “Yes, we need to show how policies will have a clear impact on improving the lives of people in Scotland. Our message has to resonate and the electorate should have no doubt about what a vote for Scottish Labour will mean to them, their family and their community.”

SB: “Labour across the whole of Britain needs to show that we understand the immense pressures which people on low and middle incomes are experiencing in the aftermath of the recession. Working people have seen their pay stagnate while the cost of living has risen.  The challenge for Scottish Labour is mobilising to engage with the distinctive political agenda of post-referendum Scotland, to seek to unite many of those who voted Yes with many of those who voted No behind a progressive social agenda, and at the same time, demonstrate that a UK Labour Government can help us to deliver that.
“We need to challenge all parties including the SNP on what kind of Government they want for the UK next year: one led by Ed Miliband or one led by David Cameron. Once voters have decided on that question, the way they should vote next May is very clear.”

JM: “We need a uniquely Scottish approach in a lot of what we do and that’s what I will bring.”

Why do party leaders consistently say they are listening and apparently have been since defeat in 2007 and yet nothing seems to change?

NF: “I did 63 public meetings during the referendum and was listening. The two themes that came through were social justice and disappointment with Labour. So we need a response to these issues. People want us to be the ‘Labour’ party again and expect us to have very strong, clear positions on poverty, unemployment, poor working conditions, giving hope to our young people and caring for the elderly. We need to put clear ‘red water’ between ourselves and the other parties. More of the same just won’t cut it.”

SB: “A good deal has changed but not enough since 2011. We ran effective local government campaigns across Scotland in 2012 and many new Labour councillors were elected. We’ve also seen stronger campaigning in areas where we’ve been working together as a team. A big challenge is to develop a stronger culture of community campaigning and engagement in our part, and we need to keep listening if we are to match the aspirations of the people of Scotland.”

JM: “The consequences of adopting a business as usual approach are too severe this time around for change not to happen. We lost in 2007 and didn’t listen so we got walloped. That won’t happen again.”

Why did Labour struggle in some of its traditional heartlands in the independence referendum?

NF: “First, I think getting involved in Better Together was a tactical blunder and gave the SNP an easy line on ‘getting into bed with the Tories’. Of course, this failed to take account of their alliances with, say, Trotskyists and venture capitalists, Greens and climate change deniers, tax justice campaigners and tax avoiders sharing a platform.
“Second, our traditional voters were not given adequate reasons for voting No. They did not know what Labour stood for and how remaining part of the UK would benefit them. We should have been arguing the case on the basis of solidarity, community, justice and how we would improve the lives of working people across the UK and highlighting specific advantages for Scots.”

SB: “The consistent message I got from people when talking to them in the campaign was that many people thought that they didn’t have anything to lose by voting Yes.”

JM: “The desire to get rid of the Tories meant a lot of people voted Yes. As leader, I won’t ask anyone how they voted in the referendum; I will only ask how we can change our country together. For so many Scots who want change, the next big vote is to get rid of the Tories. We can only do that by voting Labour.”

What does the party stand for today, from your point of view?

NF: “That is the key point I am raising in the campaign. People aren’t clear what Labour stands for anymore. We must be the party that puts the eradication of poverty and inequality at the heart of all we do. We have over 800,000 people in relative poverty, 400,000 workers earning below the Living Wage, 150,000 people on housing waiting lists. We have to be the party that addresses these issues and we must work with schools, colleges, universities, businesses and trades unions to create jobs and opportunities for all our people. A fair society is in our economic as well as social interest. All of this should reflect our timeless Labour values of fairness, justice, community and solidarity.”

SB: “The Labour Party was born of a desire to make our country fairer and more equal – at home and across the globe. It’s that passion for change, to challenge privilege and injustice that motivates us as a party to seek the power to work with people to improve their lives.”

JM: “We stand for making our country, and the world, a fairer and better place to live.” 

Was working with the Tories through Better Together a mistake?

NF: “Yes.”

SB: “Our mistake was not running a strong, distinctive Scottish Labour campaign highlighting the benefits of devolution and our proposals as set out in Labour’s Devolution Commission.”

JM: “Political parties work together from time to time – ask Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, as they were propped up by the Tories in their first term in government. Labour has so little in common with the Tories that it was really unusual to be voting the same way but the gloves are off again for the General Election.”

How can public engagement in politics be maintained?

NF: “By continual engagement with the public through face-to-face contact, social media campaigns, holding public meetings (one of the best things about the referendum) and speaking to community groups, but most importantly, having polices that engage and involve the public. My campaign is a grassroots campaign. 1000 people have volunteered to help – people are excited about the politics I am promoting and people are joining the Labour Party again. We enthuse people by making politics and policy exciting and radical.”

SB: “There’s a huge disconnect from politics with many people not seeing it as relevant to their lives. I think that the voter turnout in the referendum creates an opportunity to build on the involvement of many people in the meetings and hustings that were held. As leader, I’d want to listen and engage with people and reflect on their ambitions for their families, their communities and for the country as a whole.”

JM: “We need to take the passion and energy of the referendum and use that to debate the future of our public services. Politics as usual won’t do. We need people to get out of the parliamentary chamber and take their case directly to the people. My 100 towns tour was one way of showing that when you take politics to the people they will respond with passion.”

Do you think this time Labour might get a leader that will see you through a couple of successful parliamentary elections?

NF: “Yes. Whoever wins must be given the authority and support to take us through 2015, 2016 and 2017 and if it is not me then they will have my full support.”

SB: “I think that’s the challenge for the next leader, to emerge from the leadership election having started to build the unity of purpose we need and to identify the urgent changes we need to make to turn Scottish Labour into a force people can trust with Scotland’s future.”

JM: “Yes.”

This process has been a little like washing your dirty linen in public but do you think, ultimately, it will have been cathartic and the party will be able to move on positively?

NF: “I don’t do the politics of briefings and behind the hand comments about colleagues. That is not my style. So I don’t think the campaign has been dirty at all – it has been open and democratic. I have been very clear from the start that this must be about policy, not personalities. I told my campaign team at the start of the process if they wanted to get involved in a personality-based campaign, with attacks on other candidates, they should leave now. I think all of the candidates have conducted themselves well in the campaign. That is how it should be.”

SB: “It has to be. We have to do more to live up to the expectation people have of our party. I’m using my leadership campaign to set out my vision not just for my party, but for the country. We’re not having a coronation – we’re having a real debate and in a much more open way than before. I think that’s a good thing.”

JM: “A debate about the future direction of our party is much better than a coronation. We have a lot to think about and to change. The process will be good for Labour and in turn for Scotland.”

Who do you respect most from political parties other than Labour?

NF: “I respect John Finnie, Jean Urquhart and John Wilson. They took brave decisions to leave their party on a point of principle as they could not stand the hypocrisy of the SNP over NATO – that took courage. There are members of all of the parties I respect and am friendly with but I won’t name them to save them from embarrassment!”

SB: “I’m not sure it would be fair on them to identify them in public. Suffice to say that I’ve found it possible to work constructively across the Scottish Parliament when I need to make gains for my constituents. Cross-party groups can be a good way to get things onto the agenda.”

JM: “Charles Kennedy.”

What is something people wouldn’t necessarily know about you?

NF: “I love cooking. It was my favourite subject at school and I still cook a lot and am not bad at it.”

SB: “I switch off from politics by reading – this year’s crime novels have been Norwegian and Icelandic having worked my way through Peter May’s Lewis trilogy and the Shetland novels by Anne Cleeves last year.”

JM: “I still own a red chopper bike.”

Who would be at your fantasy dinner party and what would be on the menu?

NF: “Helen Mirren, Billy Connolly, Tony Benn, my best pal Jimmy, David Attenborough, and Adele for a bit of music.
“On the menu: haggis for starter; the best steak and chips with Roquefort cheese; and my wife’s sticky toffee pudding. All accompanied by an ice-cold pint or two of a famous Scottish lager.”

SB: “I think with the cast of What We Did On Our Holiday, Billy Connolly, David Tennant and Rosamund Pike, eating fish suppers on the beach with me quizzing them about their cinema careers.”

JM: “Jock Stein, Keir Hardie, Rosa Parks and Nelson Mandela.
“A vegetarian meal, washed down with cans of Irn Bru!”