Sketch: Jenny Gilruth addresses the elephant in the room

A real revelation surfaces from Holyrood’s Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. Truly, news that will shock the people of Scotland far and wide: Keith Brown – the depute leader of the Scottish National Party – is sceptical of the UK Government’s intentions.

The committee, which is taking evidence from Deputy First Minister Jenny Gilruth, is trying to ascertain how intergovernmental relations are going between Edinburgh and London. But no matter how many times Gilruth insists there have been improvements, the MSP for Clackmannanshire and Dunblane just does not believe it.

There is, he says, an “elephant in the room”. The shape of that elephant? You guessed it: Scottish independence.

How is it possible, Brown asks, that ministers can “look positively or pragmatically on the prospects for intergovernmental relations” when the “first request from the Scottish Government” has been denied?

He continues: “I just wonder how easy is it to compartmentalise the different issues on which you have to relate to the UK Government, knowing that that fundamental request can be so readily dismissed. What are the real prospects for intergovernmental relations?” He really does makes Gilruth look entirely un-tribal.

“I think that’s a great question, Mr Brown,” she replies, careful not to insult him. It wouldn’t look good to have the deputy and the depute at each other’s throats. “I think it’s really difficult,” she continues, but ultimately, she has to “try to engage” with the UK Government.

Besides, she goes on, the hopes of an independence referendum are not entirely dead. The prime minister has been “amenable” to the idea, she says, and his current position is “not sustainable”. That, of course, is the same argument her government has been putting forward since October 2014.

“There’s a disconnect here, between on the one hand saying we have a prime minister in favour of further devolution and on the other hand a prime minister who’s saying, ‘not that type of devolution’,” the DFM says. She had earlier in the committee session described independence as the “ultimate devolution”, which is an interesting way to argue in favour of becoming an entirely separate country.

“The elephant is still in the room, and we have not addressed it,” she adds. But, she goes on, engagement with the UK Government “does not detract” from the Scottish Government’s ambition for independence. Which is to say, no, they’ve not secured a referendum. But also no, they cannot just stop engaging with the UK Government and – I don’t know – declare independence unilaterally like some in her party would prefer.

On the issues of engaging more generally, she says there is an “opportunity to be grasped” to reset. And Gilruth welcomes the rhetoric coming from the UK Government on this – because of course, the relationship breakdown was entirely to do with the poor attitude of previous UK ministers and nothing at all to do with the SNP government who have always, always engaged in good faith.

Asked about discussions her government has had about pieces of legislation in the Programme for Government that will likely require some input from the UK Government – the food price cap, for example, or the Scottish budget – Gilruth says it’s still “early in the day”. “No firm conclusions have been reached” on whether and how much to talk to southern colleagues.

Lib Dem MSP David Green seems concerned. This could end up leading to a “constitutional rammy”. How will the Scottish Government avoid this, he asks, as though unaware that such a rammy is exactly what the SNP is after.

Scottish ministers “may” have to work with the UK Government on this, but she doesn’t want to “prejudge” whether it is necessary, replies Gilruth. Andy Burnham, she adds, has been clear he will “not seek to override the Scottish Parliament”. Sadly, the same cannot be said for the Scottish Government, which has shown it are more than happy to attempt to override the UK Parliament. “We certainly don’t want to have a constitutional debate over this,” she adds, totally believably.

Labour MSP Jenny Young would like some reassurance that this parliament will not see constant rows between the two governments about what is and isn’t devolved. What will you do differently, she asks.

“It’s a good question,” replies Gilruth, preparing not to answer. “Politics is at play in some of these issues, and I think we should be pragmatic about that.” But of course, it’s never the SNP playing politics – it’s always the other side.

“That isn’t good for the passage of legislation in this place,” the DFM continues. “It’s actually not great for MSPs, who spend inordinate amounts of their time in committees like this or in the chamber debating amendments and putting forward their views, and then to have that thwarted at the eleventh hour feels deeply undemocratic at times.”

Indeed, she’s purely concerned for the welfare of MSPs and not at all interested in kicking up that constitutional rammy. The SNP, as we know, despise such a rammy.