Mandy Rhodes interviews Stephen Purcell, leader of Glasgow City Council and arguably, one of Labour's most powerful politicians in Scotland...
A very obviously new copy of Malcolm Gladwell’s seminal novel, The Tipping Point: How Little Things Can Make A Big Difference is sitting on a chair at the door into Stephen Purcell’s grand office in the City Chambers. I raise my eyes skyward; firstly he comes out as the first gay leader of Scotland’s most macho stomping ground and then he goes all self-improvement, new age, pseudo-intellectual-like with his pretentious pop sociology books on change and yet, tee, hee…the paperback in question hasn’t even been opened. Yeah, yeah, got your number, boy…you’ve probably got the Beano hidden inside it.
For those not in the know, in the book Gladwell introduces the tipping-point theory to explain how minor changes in ideas and products can increase their popularity and how small adjustments in an individual’s immediate environment can alter group behaviour. He describes tipping points as “the levels at which the momentum for change becomes unstoppable” and defines it as “the moment of critical mass, the threshold, the boiling point” and seeks to explain and describe enormous and “mysterious” sociological changes that mark everyday life. He says that “ideas and products and messages and behaviours spread like viruses do” and gives the examples of such changes as the rise in popularity and sales of Hush Puppies shoes in the mid-1990s and the dramatic drop in the New York City crime rate in the late 1990s. The Tipping Point was so the new millennium’s novel of choice and an accessory that says so much more about the reader than the author.
I laugh silently and cynically at the pristine condition of the book and the obvious product placement of it all and ask, rather knowingly, if Purcell is reading it at the moment. Not only has he read the book several times, he says, but hands copies of it out to anyone who he thinks might benefit. It is, he says, a ‘must read’ although doesn’t proffer one to me – maybe I’ve tipped too far. This particular copy – at least the fifth one he has given away – is awaiting its new owner, his own copy is, he assures me, at home and well thumbed. Things, it would appear, are not always what you assume.
The whole book thing would be an easy analogy to continue with. Purcell has, after all, been the catalyst for enormous change in his home town of Glasgow with regeneration projects erupting like a rash all over the once mean city and it, in turn, has witnessed enormous change in him.
Although, once described by Tony Blair as “a visionary civic leader” and widely acknowledged as one of the most exciting prospects in the current Labour Party, Purcell, it seems, transcends party politics. What drives him is a desire to improve Glasgow and he is unashamed about how he gets there. In terms of his ambitions for the city, he is driven more by practicality than ideology. Despite being a loyal Labour man – he joined the party when he was 15 after being starstruck by hearing Donald Dewar speak on social justice – he has stretched that particular political philosophy to its limits by embracing the private sector, going head-to-head with the trade unions, getting into bed with the SNP Government to help deliver his vision, agreeing that the Concordat is an overdue development and even going as far as describing Alex Salmond as a “really nice man”. In fact his only non-negotiable with the present Scottish Government is the fundamental on independence, although even on that point he believes it should be part of the current constitutional debate. At a time when the rest of the party is treating the SNP administration with antipathy, at best, Purcell is one of the few Labour politicians in Scotland who is acting in a mature and grown-up way.
But then Purcell is one of those people that was never really ever a young man. He was always verging on middle age, an auld heid on young shoulders, perhaps a little uncomfortable in his own skin and maybe he took himself a little too seriously. As a teenage Labour activist and a trainee in the bank, he always wore a suit and carried a briefcase even when his fellow angst-ridden socialists were sporting greasy jeans, baggy jumpers and calling him ‘Mr Corporate Slippers’ because he was so into his job with the Abbey National. But maybe Purcell felt he had more to prove than others, for while he fitted the west coast, card-carrying member of the Labour Party stereotype; he had left school at 16, having been described as “average” and was just an ordinary Joe from an ordinary family in Yoker – where he still lives - there wasn’t much to make Purcell stand out from the crowd. Former young Labour colleagues remember him as fiercely ambitious – for what, is more ambiguous, – so perhaps acting older than his years was an easy way to get an edge. Certainly a touch of faux gravitas hasn’t done him any harm. By the age of 22, he had been elected a councillor and was invested as Glasgow’s youngest-ever council leader at 32. Now in his mid-30s, he seems to have emerged in recent years, like William Hague, a man that has grown into himself.
Part of that personal evolution was the announcement 18 months ago that not only was his marriage to trade union activist, Katrina Murray, over but that he was also homosexual. The George Square City Chambers might have expected to media shockwaves to reverberate its stately walls but instead the tabloids did a quick hit on the Glasgae (sic) theme and then everyone got on with business as usual. For a man at the head of Scotland’s tribal political heartland and all its macho machinations, the announcement could well have been political suicide, there were rumours that it was political rivals who were threatening to expose his sexuality and prompted the announcement but, in truth, most of the political hack pack had already picked up on the story and it was Purcell and his team that managed and orchestrated a timely and controlled announcement. The public reaction has been surprisingly ambivalent; afterall, this is just a gay man who talks straight.
He certainly looks well on it as does, incidentally, his former wife. He says he has started running and going to the gym three times a week, prompted not so much by his domestic arrangements as by the fact that Glasgow will host the Commonwealth Games in 2014 and, he says, he wants to be fit by then and mischievously, challenges the FM to join him in that quest.
Securing the Commonwealth Games for Glasgow in 2014 has been one of the many major successes for Purcell but he is keen to stress that it has been a team effort in which the rejuvenated city itself has played a key role.
“It just reflects how well Glasgow is doing just now and in a sense, I am the figurehead for a great deal of work that other people are doing across the public and private sector in Glasgow
I am the figurehead for a great deal of work that other people are doing across the public and private sector in Glasgow 
.”
Purcell clearly relishes a bit of grandstanding for his beloved city but it is clear that he had invested a huge amount, both professionally and personally, in pulling out all the stops to secure the 2014 event. I ask him what was more stressful, coming out or waiting to hear whether Glasgow had secured the Games?
He laughs – which he does a lot these days before saying: “Well, it was a different kind of stress. After my marriage broke up in the summer of 2006, it was a difficult few months coming to terms with the fact that I had accepted my own sexuality. The stress of eventually making the public announcement was more about how my friends and family would react but they reacted very well but obviously, a public announcement takes it to a new level. In fact, what I found was that we made the announcement on a Friday, it was a hot topic on the Saturday and really forgotten about on the Monday morning. Life just went on and clearly for me, life was much easier.
“Do I wish I had done it earlier? I am not the kind of person that has regrets, I think the only reason to look back is to learn and to be honest, it was over and done with over the course of that weekend and I haven’t had the time to look back.”
Does he feel happier?
“I certainly feel more relaxed with myself as a person and when I finally accepted it, I accepted myself as a person more.
“As for the stress of waiting for the Commonwealth Games announcement, I think I know now what it is like to be a football manager for 90 minutes during a European Cup final, as opposed to being someone watching it. I could feel a physical weight on my shoulders because we had invested so much in the bid and it was only when we were in Sri Lanka as a bid team, which had become close knit and we had become very close friends, and it was only in Sri Lanka that we realised how much emotion we had invested in the bid and I don’t mind saying that on the flight on the way home, that at one point I did shed a tear or two. When I finally drew breath from that flight and got home, it just came home to me how momentous that day in Sri Lanka had been.”
Had he allowed himself to even consider failure?
“I never really thought it was in doubt at any point. The First Minister and I said on the way out to Sri Lanka that we were treating the final stages like an election campaign; that three-week short, intensive campaign that leads up to polling day and like an election, you know when you’re looking at people’s faces and their body language, when you are speaking to them, and I was pretty confident it was going our way. But from the moment I stood down from the platform after I made my presentation to the Commonwealth Games Federation, for the next almost 90 minutes to the result being announced, that was the only time that I doubted it and again, similar to an election, it’s when the polling stations close at ten o’clock at night until those ballot boxes are finally opened that you do fret because it is out of your hands then and there is nothing more that you can do.”
And on that note, does he feel Labour has accepted what happened in May at the ballot box?
“It has been a difficult year for Labour but one thing that was clear at Aviemore at the Scottish conference, was that people have now accepted the result. There was a bounce at the conference this year with everyone, whether it be activists or politicians, focused on the future direction of the party.
“I think that the key thing is getting the organisation right and the second part of that is to motivate the organisation. So promoting the vision of Labour as the party that stands up for ordinary people is very important in what we can do over the coming period, both in the run-up to the Westminster elections and the Holyrood elections.
“The last ten years were about the New Labour philosophy and we now have to articulate what the next ten years should be about and I have no doubt that we will still be about standing up for ordinary, hard-working people.”
It was at that party conference that Purcell talked about the death of New Labour. What does he see replacing it and what should it be called?
He laughs again; the two of us had played an alcohol-fuelled game at the conference, trying to find a new banner for Labour and most of my efforts were unprintable alliterations around the word socialism and his was the winning and safe, ‘Love Labour’. But seriously, folks…
“I think people identify clearly with the brand and what Labour means and it is about a party that is centred around people first, it is what our proud tradition and history is and is where our future survival is. I think that New Labour as a brand, and it was a very important message to convince people that we were not a party that stood up for one section of people, that we stood up for everyone’s interest, I think that brand has died and we need to set out a new brand but what we mustn’t do is allow the philosophy of New Labour to die, and that philosophy is to remind ourselves, as much as the country, that we stand up for everyone in Scotland and no one part of society.”
I suggest again that he is less driven by strict party doctrine than a need to get things done.
“Well, I like to get things done and I said at the outset when I became leader of the council, I said it to my own group before they elected me, when I set out my agenda that I would work with anyone who has Glasgow’s interest at heart, regardless of party, regardless of what sector they worked in, public, private sector, regardless of what job they do and I think that has been well received and that approach has built up a team spirit in Glasgow that is making Glasgow a better place.”
Does that make him any less a Labour man?
“No, I came into the Labour Party when I was 15; I got an interest in politics when I was at secondary school and when I decided to be active in politics, I did not think twice about which party to join. I look back now and reflect on it and realise my whole upbringing and the views that had come from my mother and father made me a natural candidate to join the Labour Party. I am no less Labour than when I was at 15 years of age. But you know, in post-devolution Scotland, politics has changed. In fact, politics has changed in the world and the sphere of politics I am involved in – local government – politics has changed dramatically. As Labour learned in 1999 when they took coalition with the Liberal Democrats, part of that change is looking for ways in which we work with other political parties and people outside our own sphere of influence.”
Could he ever see his own allegiance being pushed so far that he could jump ship and join the SNP?
“Well, I don’t support independence so there is no question of me ever supporting the SNP’s reason for being as a political party. I am not saying that there are not people in other parties that don’t believe in social change, of course there are, and where we are able to work, as I am with the First Minister and other ministers on an agenda of social change, then it is right that Glasgow does that but I often say inside the Labour Party, whether we label ourselves New or Old Labour or Glasgow Labour or whatever, the one thing that binds us together, the central reason for being a member of the Labour Party is that we are driven by a passion to see social change and give everyone an opportunity in life, particularly people who have barriers or disadvantage in their way.”
Maybe he has moved further than the rest of his party? Maybe he is the brand – Labour’s Weapon of Mass Re-construction?
“The world of politics has changed. Because of devolution, because the world itself is smaller and because of proportional representation but there is something else, the old ‘I vote as my father did’ mentality has gone. I know from friends and family of my generation that people think more and they don’t always vote the same as their parents and they don’t always vote the same way at every election and if Labour doesn’t embrace that, then we will be out of tune with the mood of the people and the fact that Labour was prepared to go into coalition in 1999 and not seek a minority was the first step in that change.
“I know that is difficult for a lot of members of the Labour Party, particularly people that are used to voting systems that deliver majority government, but I think that it would be wrong of any city leader to put party politics or any dogmatic view of the world in the way of progress. I think that overall, proportional representation has brought a real challenge to the Labour Party and I think it’s terrific many Labour councillors have been prepared to be practical about how they work in this new system, for instance, we have examples on the doorstep of Glasgow; a Labour-led council in coalition with the Conservatives and a Labour-led council in coalition with the SNP and here in Glasgow, although we have a very healthy Labour majority of 13, we have been embracing the fact that there is a large opposition and a number of opposition councillors are leading or are chairs of committees and working groups and you know, we are able to put our party politics aside where we have issues that have common ground.”
I suggest that maybe this is easier in local government and that Purcell, at some point, must have made a conscious decision to build his power base in local politics, which can sometimes get a lip-curling reaction from politicians at Holyrood as well as Westminster.
“It is perhaps easier in local government than it is in Parliament to work consensually because motivations are different
It is perhaps easier in local government than it is in Parliament to work consensually because motivations are different
. For a lot of people who get elected to local government, their motivation is simply, and quite correctly in many ways, to make the area they represent, or in our case the city, a lot better and if that is the starting point then it is much easier to build consensus with people who hold other views in terms of party politics. That is more difficult when in Parliament and a legislative chamber. For example, if the constitution was the centre stage of the debate, it is very difficult to get consensus with parties that are polls apart and I can not see anyway that I could be working with SNP ministers over the issue of independence but what I can do as leader of Glasgow City Council is work with them, in terms of completing vital infrastructure that helps grow our economy, which looks at vital ways that can help improve our performance of our schools and if I wasn’t prepared to do that and this administration was not prepared to do that, then we would be rightly criticised for putting party politics in the way of Glasgow’s process.”
Given his own power base, the size of Glasgow and the £2bn plus budget he is managing, the SNP Government would have been mad not to work with him?
“I was worried when they got elected that this would present Glasgow with a difficult working atmosphere. Whilst I don’t agree with their party politics, I have to respect the fact that it would be churlish of me not to recognise the fact that they have reached out and are prepared to work with not just us here in Glasgow, but with local government across the board.”
Does he see similarities in ambition between him and Alex Salmond?
“I think he is very easy to get on with, I think we had no choice in that week in Sri Lanka when we had to work day and night for Scotland to win the Games for Glasgow and Scotland. He is a very easy man to work with.”
Gosh…
“I can only speak from my experience. I can only judge him over the last year. They will probably serve a full four-year term and it’s at that point, when we all go to the ballot box, that we collectively and individually make our judgment, on the performance of the First Minister and the Government. So I suppose, he is still on parole as far as Glasgow is concerned.”
Did he feel usurped by the Fist Minister’s presence in Sri Lanka?
“Well, he is the First Minister and that is the bottom line, he is the elected leader of the Parliament in Edinburgh and it will be inevitable that he will be the main focus. That was true for the previous First Minister, who I had an equally strong working relationship with, particularly over the Games so I don’t get upset about territory or who has the profile to deliver something like the Games. Winning was the most important thing.”
Can he afford to be so generous because secretly, he knows who is in charge?
[Laughs] “Well, I am clear whenever the First Minister visits Glasgow, he is visiting Glasgow and he is our guest.”
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