Mandy Rhodes interviews Richard Lochhead, Cabinet Secretary for Rural Affairs and the Environment about Scotland's natural wealth and the man they call the 'Boss'
Richard Lochhead bounds up the stairs of the Cullen Bay Hotel on one of those beautiful, balmy, autumnal days when the sky and sea melt together in a haze of blue and you just know Scotland is the best place to be alive. He’s driven over from his constituency office in Elgin with the new Bruce Springsteen album playing in the car and his joy is unsurpassed. “I have just listened to the first eight tracks and it is superb,” he reveals almost dancing to his own tune and for that moment, the SNP MSP for Moray, the man credited with handling the recent Foot and Mouth outbreak with such aplomb, is unreconstructed, air guitar man. He might as well be wearing a brushed-cotton checked shirt and blue jeans.
Lochhead is an enthusiastic fan of the man ‘Born in the USA’, he describes seeing him on stage as a “religious experience” and admits that when he discovered that his idol was not playing any Scottish dates in his forthcoming tour, he wrote to the promoter asking why and demanding that ‘The Boss’ venture north. And while, he may not have directly used his government position to dictate subsequent events, he says that he will take all the credit when Springsteen does eventually play on Scottish soil.
It’s not unusual for politicians to piggyback on the popularity of a celebrity – think Blair and Oasis - but actually, what is so endearing about Lochhead, is that he is still so starry-eyed about his own new role that he hasn’t quite realised his own celebrity potential to influence events. Like everything Lochhead does; from asking why a superstar like Springsteen with a legion of Scottish fans shouldn’t come to Scotland, to demanding a seat around the European fishing quotas table, to going against his own boss’s wishes about standing for election in 1997, it is done out of a sense of fair play and common sense. And when your boss is also Alex Salmond, it takes a fair amount of chutzpah to do so.
“I’ve got a certain attitude to the way I operate as a politician and I try to avoid bullshit when I can
I’ve got a certain attitude to the way I operate as a politician and I try to avoid bullshit when I can 
and I try to have a frank and open relationship with the people I’m dealing with. Clearly, that’s got to work within a certain context because I am a cabinet Secretary and we have to negotiate and be diplomatic, but in terms of the way I deal with my own organisations, my own people, I just try to be upfront with them. I don’t want to raise expectations when they shouldn’t be raised, I don’t want to lower expectations when we should be achieving higher things and be more ambitious. It’s me and I say what I think. That’s worked quite well so far and I’ve only been in the job four months.”
And what a four months. For a man that admits he is still pinching himself that a) his party is in government and b) that he is in the cabinet, he is looking remarkably unbruised by the experience, despite undergoing a ministerial baptism of fire, thanks to the Foot and Mouth outbreak.
“it’s fair to say that when I got the portfolio, which I was bowled over by, you know the fact that I had a place in the cabinet, I thought, well, that’s the portfolio that deals with Foot and Mouth disease, should that ever happen…and here I am four and a half months into it, with the second Foot and Mouth crisis, so it’s been a steep learning curve..
I tell him that the word among the farmers is that he has done a good job. “I guess, without over-egging the pudding, in times of adversity, you just deal with it and get on with it and we are very lucky in Scotland that the officials I have working for me in the government, the chief Veterinary Officer, Charles Milne in particular, and some of his colleagues, are outstanding. So I have got to know the civil servants and got to trust them very quickly because of FMD. But yes, from a political perspective, you are thrown into the spotlight but you just get on with it and I’m proud of the way we’ve handled it so far.”
Perhaps it’s because Lochhead is as down to earth as the farmers he has been dealing with recently, over a disease that sends shivers down the spine of rural Britain, that he has emerged from the headline-hitting issue rather better than his English and vegetarian Westminster counterpart, Hilary Benn. He says it is simply because he cares for the farmers. He says that he cringed when he heard government spokesman after government spokesman down south talking about the tragedy of Foot and Mouth in almost abstract terms.
“This is about people and their livelihood,” he says. “To talk about Foot and Mouth without showing respect to the farmers and what they are going through just makes my blood boil.”
Far be it for any politician to try and engage in political point-scoring, particularly with respect to independence over an issue like Foot and Mouth but Lochhead clearly sees this as an English problem rather than a Scottish one and he would like to see something done about it.
“it’s extremely frustrating that even though we don’t have Foot and Mouth disease in Scotland, as we speak, that the nature of the disease does mean that it does impact on Scotland and what has been remarkable is the fact that our farmers and all the rest of the livestock industry have been reasonable.
“it’s incredibly difficult because, you know, we’ve had all kinds of farmers who are incredibly distressed, given the impact on their own personal circumstances, and as a cabinet Secretary who’s got political responsibility for dealing with the crisis, you’re very conscious of that, that there are people, lots of people around Scotland, particularly sheep farmers, who are extremely upset by what’s happened.
“One of the distinctive aspects of my portfolio, of course, is the fact that more than any other, it interacts with the UK and Europe, so from an SNP perspective and a Scottish Government perspective, I’m learning at first hand what the reality is like. coming from opposition, where you’ve had your suspicion and your political viewpoint is one thing but actually, to be in the hot seat dealing with, on sometimes a day-to-day basis, UK ministers and European authorities, particularly UK ministers in the case of FMD, you get first-hand experience of, from Scotland’s point of view, dealing with the rest of the UK and sometimes Europe as well.”
And what conclusions does that lead to?
“Well, I’ve got to balance having a constructive relationship with my UK counterparts, because it’s outcomes we’re interested in, outcomes in terms of FMD or anything else we’ve been dealing with, which is to get through it with minimum disruption to Scotland but you do get an insight into how the relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK operates at a government level. You do sometimes get a distinctive feeling that it’s a case of ‘talk to the hand’ from the UK Government.
“There is this flaw in the current constitutional arrangements, whereby DEFRA in particular, who we have daily interaction with over marine policy, fishing policy, farming policy and so forth, that there is this flaw that they are representing both Great Britain but are also English ministers, so they’ve got to wear two hats at once and my impression is that we in Scotland are fighting to get on the radar system.
“it is a mindset and I don’t believe that it’s something that the UK Government is conscious of what it’s doing because it is still coming to terms with how to handle us, and because we’ve been much more forceful, much more on their case during the last four months, I think there is a recognition that there has been a change in the relationship.”
The language of environment and rural affairs is not unknown to Lochhead. He has variously been opposition spokesperson, written party policies on the subjects he is now covering as a government minister and was closely involved in writing the manifesto commitments in those areas. However, he admits that being now involved in the reality of implementation and management can be, at the same time, incredibly exciting and overwhelming. FMD has, in some ways, been the final piece in a jigsaw that has led him to the belief that Scotland requires a National Food Policy that would cut across ministerial briefs and usher in a more holistic approach to our nation’s wellbeing.
“I think there are really hard lessons to be learned from FMD. I think that’s two-fold. Firstly, we can’t control how DEFRA operate their animal health policies south of the Border, even though we pay some of the consequences up here. and there are perhaps questions to be asked once this is all over, like, did they deal with it in the best way? The second lesson to be learned is, what can we do to protect Scotland from FMD? Because Scotland’s got a fantastic reputation for food you can trust, so we need to protect that and get even more dividends for having that reputation.”
So what could he do to up the ante on that?
“Well, I just think this has got to maybe be part of my new food policy. This is a trend that’s been happening over recent years here in Scotland, a trend towards local quality food and raising Scotland’s profile as a food-producing nation. It crosses into so many different agendas; it crosses into farmers’ agenda, because we need people that produce raw materials, which means that we have to protect our farmers. It goes into the health agenda, because we have some of the healthiest foods in the world, yet we are unhealthy as a nation. It goes into the environmental agenda, because we would be cutting down unnecessary food miles. We might not be growing bananas in Scotland, so we need to import them but there are other foods we’re importing that we’re producing on Scotland’s own doorstep, which is crazy in this day and age. So the point I’m making here is this food agenda, which I think could become huge for Scotland, cuts across all the various responsibilities. FMD also coincides with this move towards a comprehensive food agenda. Why are we sending animals south to abattoirs in England and Wales, which means that we not only lose money because it’s at the point of slaughter where the levy kicks in, but also increases the risk of animal disease outbreaks?
“it’s never been joined up before and I find that so frustrating but also the timing’s right now to do it because now we’re in government and obviously, have the opportunity to do it but also, there’s these trends I’ve been talking about over the last few years coming to a head. So if we had a National Food Policy for Scotland, we could tackle some of these issues.”
So what is being done to move that forward?
“Well, I’m working on it just now and we’ve expanded our food unit in government and they’re, as we speak, working on that and on October 8 they’re having their own brainstorming session with Scotland’s food community, if you like. That’s producers, processors, consumers, everyone who has an interest.
“Then we’re going to take those discussions to Parliament to have a parliamentary debate on a food policy for Scotland. I’m also looking at the idea of having a food summit and I’ve been speaking to Scotland’s chefs who feel very strongly about this – all very excited about Scotland making the most of our opportunities to produce more quality local foods and consume it here. It makes sense from all angles: health, education, environment, transport, tourism, etc., etc.”
But can a government impose food principles? Even the Scottish Parliament has to have specially advertised ‘Scottish food events’ in its own restaurants.
“I think one of the first things is information, so that people are aware and consumers are aware, whether through better labelling or just wider education. There’s some really exciting things happening just now with link ups between local farms and consumers locally and schools locally, and so on, to see where it goes from farm to plate, and if we do have better quality food produced in Scotland, which is better assured in terms of the various assurance schemes, if the welfare conditions that are imposed on the livestock keepers are higher than overseas, people should know that. They should know what they’re paying for. So I think information, getting better labelling and better education about where their food comes from and is made, that will help people to be much more informed and give them a choice so they know what they’re buying.
“You can also set examples. We are looking for opportunities to increase public procurement in Scotland for what we’re responsible for in terms of public expenditure. You can tackle some of the regulatory obstacles, so that when we do look at public procurement and we are hit by European regulations and other regulations, then we can do something about that. So at least as a government, we can try and tackle some of these obstacles and if it becomes something that stops at the door of Europe, then we have to speak to Europe about it and say, you know, this doesn’t make sense, you’re stopping us buying locally produced food through public procurement in Scotland, and at the same time, you’re telling us to cut carbon emissions, so you know, you’ve got to have joined-up thinking at the European level.
“Of course, it all comes back to political power and you can only do what you’ve got the mandate to do. Scotland’s not independent at the moment. A lot of the regulations that strangle the Scottish fishing industry are either reserved to the UK Government or emanate, as they mainly do, from the common Fisheries Policy, which is European. So we’ve got to do what we can to free up Scotland, and our fishing communities from a lot of the unhelpful policies that came out of he CFP. We need more political powers to make our fishing communities more successful. it breaks my heart that Scotland is a major fishing nation and yet we have watched the decline of our fishing communities in recent decades, part of which is down to advanced technology, which is inescapable but a large part is down to mismanagement and bad policies. Unfortunately, Scotland at the moment feels completely alienated from the fishing policy imposed on us from above
Scotland at the moment feels completely alienated from the fishing policy imposed on us from above
and hopefully, we can at least do a lot more to make Scotland’s case because we now have an SNP Government that I think treats fishing as a priority, compared to previous governments. It’s not a tiny minority interest as it was viewed to be by previous governments and hopefully, we can make progress, even under devolution.”
How do you do that?
“Our task is to try and change the mindset in the UK Government. We have been treated with utter contempt, and even over the last few weeks, I’ve made a point of going to the Agriculture and Fisheries councils and the seats are taken by the officials behind the UK Minister in the council of Ministers’ room. as a Scottish Minister representing the larger part of the UK’s fishing industry, I have to fight for a seat with officials from DEFRA, who will very politely understand that I am the cabinet Secretary and they’ll move, but that’s preposterous, and it’s an insult to Scotland.”
With so much obvious personal, never mind political, frustration about the rules and regulations that impact on his brief from both the UK and European parliaments, does he think he will see independence for Scotland?
“In the ‘80s when I became politically active, everyone thought, a Scottish Parliament was a pipe dream, then we got our Parliament and then people said the SNP will never win, never be in government and now we’re in government and I’m part of the government, which I’m still pinching myself about. But I think we can never be more confident than we are now that Scotland will get independence.
“One of the amazing things for me is seeing the gulf between the UK Government and Scotland, day in day out, at first hand - it is phenomenal. Now, there’s two ways of looking at it. The first way is, ‘Oh, it’s because there’s an SNP Government in Scotland and the UK Government don’t know how to handle us and they’re keeping us at a distance at the moment. Or, the other view is that they’re always like that, no matter which party is in power here and if you speak to Ross Finnie or the others who were in the previous administration, I think you will find there is just a fault line there. Scotland’s interests are not promoted by the UK Government and I think people are coming to realise that. The SNP Government intends to do something about that.”
With that, Lochhead, breathes in some of the good north-east environment and with ‘The Boss’s’ ubiquitous anthem of progressive politics ringing in his ears, goes off to fight for the country he loves no longer just ‘dancing in the dark’.
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